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Frequently Asked Questions (FAQS);faqs.306 3. How does the ranking system work? The ranks are "kyu" and "dan". Kyu means pupil and dan means master, but there is no qualitative difference. The ranks are like positive and negative numbers (with no zero). A beginner starts out with a high kyu rank (20-30 kyu) and advances to the strongest kyu rank of 1 kyu. The next rank above 1 kyu is 1 dan (shodan), and the dan ranks proceed upward to 7 dan. On the 19x19 board, the number of handicap stones is the difference between the ranks. A 3 kyu gives seven stones to a 10 kyu. A 2 dan gives 2 stones to a 1 kyu. The professional go players have a separate dan scale which goes from 1 dan to 9 dan. The professional scale has finer gradations than the amateur scale: the difference between 9 dan and 1 dan is about 2 stones. Statistical analysis of a large number of games (over 2000) by Jos Vermaseren suggests that the probability of winning an even game is given by: P(x) = (1/2)*(2/3)^(2*x) in which x is the positive difference in rank and P(x) is the chance that the weaker player wins. You can determine your strength only by playing aginast others with known strength. There are books like "Test Your Rating", but those tests are very unreliable. On a 13x13 board, if the rank difference is "diff", then the following table gives the handicap and komi: diff Handicap Komi diff Handicap Komi diff Handicap Komi 0 0 8.5 7 3 5.5 14 5 2.5 1 0 5.5 8 3 2.5 15 5 -0.5 2 0 2.5 9 3 -0.5 16 6 5.5 3 0 -0.5 10 4 5.5 17 6 2.5 4 2 5.5 11 4 2.5 18 6 -0.5 5 2 2.5 12 4 -0.5 19 6 -3.5 6 2 -0.5 13 5 5.5 20 6 -6.5 4. What public domain programs can I get to play go? Very few public domain programs exist. Those that do are extremely weak. On the archive site, you will find comp/wally.c, which can be compiled anywhere. If you think wally.c is too strong, you can get the even weaker gnugo from prep.ai.mit.edu in pub/gnu/gnugo-1.1.tar.Z. If you have X11, you can get xgoban from the archive site (prog/xgoban-1.0.sh.Z) to act as a graphical interface to either wally or gnugo. Macintosh users can try MacGo or Dragon Go (available on the archive site). Amiga users can get Amigo (comp/amigo.lzh on the archive site). Amigo has been ported to X11 (comp/xamigo.sh.Z). If you have access to an HP9000 either 680x0 based or HP-PA risc based, you can get Many Faces of Go for X11 from ftp.uu.net in games/hp-xgo.shar.Z. 5. What commercial programs can I get to play go? The information in this section may be somewhat out of date. Prices or version numbers may be wrong. The Many Faces of Go, $59.95 (add $2.25 for shipping; in CA add sales tax) ISBN 0-923891-28-5 (Version for MSDOS) Ishi Press International Ishi Press International 76 Bonaventura Drive 20 Bruges Place San Jose, CA 95134 London England NW1 OTE Tel: (408)944-9900 FAX: (408)944-9110 071 284 4898 Ishi Press 1301-5 Yabata Chigasaki-Shi Kanagawa-ken 253 (0467)83-4369 (0467)83-4710 (fax) Japan Star of Poland, Version 3.1, $110 OPENetwork 215 Berkeley Pl. Brooklyn, NY 11217 (718) 638-2266 Nemesis Version 3 was available for $79 (also $49 for Joseki Tutor and $59 for Tactical Wizard -- tsume go analyzer). Current Nemesis is version 5. Toyogo is now located in Hawaii. Call 1-800 TOYOGO9 for details. (versions for Macintosh, PC, and NEC 9801, add $6 for shipping) Go Intellect 1990 Computer Olympiad 1st place; 1990 International Computer Go Congress world championship tied for 1st/2nd place. Go Intellect version 2.98 can be ordered directly from the author. An reduced cost upgrade from 2.0 to 2.98 is also available (Version for macintosh) Dr. Ken Chen 4407 Oak Lane Charlotte, NC 28213 Go Explorer runs on top of Smart Go and is available from Anders Kierulf. (For macintosh) Anders Kierulf Smart Game Board P.O. Box 7751 Menlo Park, CA 94026-7751 The following is taken from an ad in _Go_World, issue 53, Autumn 88: Goliath 2, Dfl 99.- (Add 10% for surface, 20% for air shipment) Intl. M.O. or cheque or remit to the following account: N.M.B. Bank Amsterdam 69.17.05.070 (Version for Atari ST, monochrome, and MSDOS) Divo Publishing M. Gijzenburg 14 2907 HG Capelle a/d IJssel The Netherlands Many Faces of Go, Nemesis, and Contender (Mac) are available from Ishi Press. Ishi Press International Ishi Press International 76 Bonaventura Drive 20 Bruges Place San Jose, CA 95134 London England NW1 OTE Tel: (408)944-9900 FAX: (408)944-9110 071 284 4898 6. How strong are the commercial programs? It's difficult to rank the programs because they are all very inconsistent in their play. They may play a sequence of moves that look dan level, or solve a dan level problem during play, but then a few moves later they will make a move that a 20 kyu would never make. Since none of the current programs can learn from their own mistakes, when the same situation comes up they will make the same bad move again. The top program in the world (Goliath) claims to be around 8 or 10 Kyu. Many Faces of Go and Nemesis claim to be 13 Kyu. Poka claims to be about 17 Kyu, and Dragon Go is about 17 kyu as well. These claims are generally based on games that are the first game the human has played against a computer. Nemesis has played in AGA rated tournaments for its rating. David Fotland (Author of Many Faces of Go) says, "I know someone who was having trouble beating Many Faces at 13 stones until I suggested he could beat it at 29 stones. He spent a few weeks trying odd moves and found some weaknesses, and now he has no trouble beating it at 29 stones. Each of the programs has different weaknesses, but they all tend to collapse tactically in a complicated position, so if attach and crosscut a lot you can usually win big." Results of 1991 North American Computer Go Tournament 1st: Many Faces of Go, By David Fotland 2nd: Go Intellect, by Ken Chen 3rd: Stone, by Kao 4th: Contender, by Lynn Beus and Jim Logan 5th: Nemesis, by Bruce Wilcox 6th: Swiss Explorer, by Martin Mueller and Anders Kierulf Swiss Explorer forfeited two games, to Many faces and Nemesis, because it was late and missed two rounds. Swiss explorer lost to Contender due to an unrecoverable crash, but Contender was ahead at the time. Nemesis lost two games, to Contender and Stone, due to unrecoverable crashes. The game between Many Faces and Go Intellect was exciting - both programs killed large enemy groups, and the score swung over 100 points each way in the middle game, then the programs left a very large ko on the board until the last dame was filled. Many Faces beat Stone by about 20 points and Nemesis and Contender by about 140 points each. Results from the 1991 World computer Go Congress: Main Computer Tournament: Place Program Author Country Wins 1 6 Goliath Mark Boon Netherlands 2 5 Go Intellect Ken Chen USA (lost to Goliath) 3 4 Dragon Tung-Yueh Liu Taiwan 4 4 Weiki III Sanechika Japan 5 4 Star of Poland Kraszek Poland 6 3 Handtalk ZhiXing Cheng China 7 3 Stone Kuo-Yuan Kao Taiwan 8 3 Modgo Knoepfle Germany 9 3 Mac Won-Ho Jee Korea 10 3 Many Faces David Fotland USA 11 2 Nemesis Bruce Wilcox USA 12 2 Hirartsuka Shigyou Japan 13 1 Explorer Martin Muller Switzerland 14 1 Daihoninbo Yoshikawa Japan (Win was due to a bye) 15 0 Go Yuzhi Yang China (crashed every round) "Best Design" prize for the program with the overall best combination of ease of use, features, look, and playing strength, went to Many Faces of Go. Goliath went on to challange the 3 human players (young 5 dans), at a 16 play handicap and won all 3 games. It challenged at the next level (14 play handicap), and lost all three games. Next year the human challenge will be at a 14 play handicap. 7. What computer go tournaments exist? What are the prizes? There is a North American Championship every year at the Go Congress the first week of August. Plaques and the title of North American Computer Go Champion are the prizes. There is a similar competition at the European Go Congress. There is a Computer Games Olympiad every year in London in the summer that includes Computer Go. The Usenix conference used have a computer go competition every year, and may still - no prizes. The big money is in the World Computer Go Congress, sponsored by Ing Chang Chi and Acer in Taiwan. They have a preliminary competition every August (formerly held in Europe, USA, and Japan, but now held in Taipei with programs that are mailed in by their authors). If you do well in the preliminary (defined as beating two of 3 benchmark programs - this year the benchmarks were Stone, Friday, and Goliath) you will be reimbursed for 1/2 of your air fare to the Congress. The congress is held on November 11 and 12 in various places. In 1990 it was in Beijing. In 1991 it was in in Singapore. First prize for the best computer program is about $8,000. Second is about $1,000 and 3rd is about $500. The winning computer program plays a 3 game series against the Taiwan youth champion (usually a 12 year old 5 Dan) and gets another $8000 if it wins. This prize went unclaimed for five years, but in 1991 Goliath beat all three human challengers, so the handicap has been decreased to 14 moves. The top prize if for winning a 7 game series against a professional (of unspecified rank) is about $1.6 Million. The contest only runs through the year 2000 so the top prize will go unclaimed. 8. What are the different game record formats and how can I display them? There are several different formats for game records. The two most popular formats are Smart-Go and Ishi "Standard" Format. Definitions for these two formats are on the archive site in info/smartgo.def.Z and prog/standard.sh.Z respectively. The Smart-Go format can be read by mgt, Pon Nuki, xgoban and the Smart Go program. Ishi Format can be read by Many Faces of Go, Goscribe, Goview, Contender, Smart Go Board (version 4.0 or later), and Nemesis (version 5 and above). Smart Go Board cannot write Ishi format. Ishi publishes games regularly in Ishi format. The Liberty format is a binary format which is not common. Many of the files on the archive site are presently in this format. They can be converted to other formats with prog/convert.tar.Z. 9. What programs can I get to display go game records? The program mgt will display game records under Unix, MSDOS or Atari ST. The Unix and MSDOS versions do not use graphics, however. An X11 version of mgt is under development, but has not been released yet. The mgt program was created originally by Greg Hale at the request of rec.games.go readers who wanted an interactive program that would read a series of tutorial files posted to the net. The program was expanded by Adrian Mariano to edit and save game records. The purpose of mgt is to display and edit game records in Smart-Go format. It can be used to display a game board. Pieces can be placed and removed, and games can be scored. Mgt is in prog/mgt22.sh.Z (Unix), prog/mgt22.zip (MSDOS) and prog/stmgt.zoo (Atari ST). The program xgoban by Antoine Dumesnil de Maricourt (dumesnil@etca.fr) can display and edit Smart-Go under X11. It can also communicate with wally to provide a graphical interface to this program. The program Pon Nuki for the Mac is being developed by Greg Anderson (greggor@apple.com). He is willing to send individuals beta test copies. Pon Nuki can display either Ishi or Smart-Go format. Many Faces of Go can display only Ishi format. The Smart-Go program itself is available for the Mac. Also, Goscribe for MSDOS is available through Ishi press (address above) for $59.95. It can display and edit Ishi format. Goview, able to display but not edit, is available for MSDOS for $20. Goview is free with a subscription to Go World on disk. Smart Go Board, version 4.0.2, $40 (version for Macintosh) Anders Kierulf Smart Game Board P.O. Box 7751 Menlo Park, CA 94026-7751 10. How do I play games by computer? Since computers make poor opponents, we use them to connect us to other humans. There are two types of computer games: email, and interactive. Email games can be handled manually, by creating a board in an editor, or only exchanging move coordinates. The other option is the use the unix program 'mailgo' which is included with mgt (prog/mgt22.sh.Z). It sends Smart-Go records of your game back and forth, and invokes mgt for moves. There are several ways to play interactive games. Probably the most popular is the Internet Go Server (IGS). You can connect to the server and look for opponents to play, or just watch a game. To connect directly, type "telnet icsib18.icsi.berkeley.edu 6969" on a unix machine. The IP number is 128.32.201.46. A brief, outdated introduction to the go server is available for ftp on unmvax.cs.unm.edu in pub/go. The internet go server is also run on cnam.cnam.fr, but this site does not appear to be used much. When you connect to the IGS, be SURE to use the port number 6969. The IGS interface is quite awkward, so six client programs are available to ease your interaction with the server. They are prog/igc050.sh.Z, an ascii client for unix, prog/xigs_v1.0.sh.Z and prog/xgospel.sh.Z, X11 clients for unix, prog/gs039.sit.hqx, a Macintosh client, prog/pcig42z.exe, an IBM PC client, and prog/stigcbin-1.1.zoo, a client for Atari ST. All of the programs are available on ftp.u.washington.edu. Another interactive options is the internet go program, available on the archive site as prog/inetgo72.sh.Z, which allows BSD Unix users to play interactive games with ascii text screens. The xgosh program (prog/xgosh17.sh.Z on the archive site) allows people with X-Windows to play interactive games with a graphical board. The two interactive programs are NOT compatible. To help find suitable opponents, check out the go players email address list, available on the archive site as go-players, and also posted monthly with this FAQ. There is a standard go modem protocol which is used by go programs for modem play. It is implemented in Many Faces of Go, Nemesis, Smart Game Board and Telego (a shareware go modem program for the IBM PC). The protocol spec and sample code are available from the archive site as info/protocol.Z. Fotland's program, Many Faces of Go for X Windows on HP machines supports two players on two screens. 11. Where can I get go equipment, books, etc? Ishi Press International Ishi Press International 76 Bonaventura Drive 20 Bruges Place San Jose, CA 95134 London England NW1 OTE Tel: (408)944-9900 FAX: (408)944-9110 071 284 4898 Ishi Press 1301-5 Yabata Chigasaki-Shi Kanagawa-ken 253 (0467)83-4369 (0467)83-4710 (fax) Japan 12. What are the dimensions of a go board? The official size according to Nihon Ki-in is 45.45 x 42.42 (cm). Measurements of an Ishi board indicate that the lines are 0.8 mm thick and the hoshi points are 3 mm in diameter. Stones are supposed to be 20-21 mm in diameter. 13. What books should I read? A list of books is on the archive site: info/books.Z Xref: bloom-picayune.mit.edu rec.games.hack:22784 news.answers:4764 Path: bloom-picayune.mit.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!yucao From: yucao@cco.caltech.edu (Yu Cao) Newsgroups: rec.games.hack,news.answers Subject: [rec.games.hack] Frequently Asked Questions (WEEKLY) Message-ID: <rec.games.hack_FAQ_725097601@cco.caltech.edu> Date: 23 Dec 92 07:57:04 GMT Expires: 12 Jan 1993 08:00:01 GMT Followup-To: rec.games.hack Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 199 Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.Edu Supersedes: <rec.games.hack_FAQ_724492802@cco.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu Archive-name: games/nethack-faq Last-modified: 24 Nov 1992 (11/24/92 - Archive-name changed) (05/28/92 - archive site names added in spoiler section) (04/09/92 - VMS SPAN and ftp info updated) (02/14/92 - WCST Spoiler directory location in comp.sources.games added) ----------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: E-mail your FAQ suggestions and corrections to: yucao@cco.caltech.edu I am not a member of the development team, nor am I an expert. If you don't see an answer to your question here, please, post an article. "What is NetHack?" NetHack is a single-user, fantasy role-playing computer game, and a direct descendant of the games Hack and Rogue. The "Net" in NetHack refers to its development by a team of programmers here in the USENet community. "What is the latest version?" NetHack 3.0j {or 3.0 patchlevel 10, 3.0.10} "Where do I get it from (source code and executable files)?" FTP: linc.cis.upenn.edu pub/NH3.0/* {130.91.6.8} Official site for source and PC/AMIGA/ATARI/OS2/MAC binaries. FTP instructions are at the bottom of this article. UUCP: ftp.uu.net or other sites that keep comp.sources.games archives. VMS: NSI/DECnet(SPAN) from ACDURS::SYS$LCL:[SRC.NETHACK] {or 9583::} or anonymous ftp from uars.acd.ucar.edu in [.SRC.NETHACK]. COMPUSERVE: The GAMERS Forum library. "Who do I contact to report a bug or to get installation help?" nethack-bugs@linc.cis.upenn.edu "Where do I go for more information on playing the game?" o during play: "?" and "/" commands, fortune cookies and the Oracle. o The guidebook which accompanies the game. o Explore-mode: nethack -X {you start with a wand of wishing} "Where can I get spoilers from? o Articles posted on rec.games.hack. (The standard behavior is to insert a ctrl-L character before the spoiler so that those who wish avoid them can skip the article.) o The WCST Nethack Spoiler File. Available at sites that archive comp.sources.games, and in the Compuserve GAMERS Forumlibrary. The latest release is version 7.00. You can find it at sites that archive comp.sources.games in directory: comp.sources.games/volume13/nh-spoilers3 Here is a list of some of the archive sites: (please download from within your continent) ftp.uu.net {137.39.1.9} wuarchive.wustl.edu {128.252.135.4} usc.edu {128.125.253.136} brolga.cc.uq.oz.au {130.102.128.5} ftp.waseda.ac.jp {133.9.1.32} nic.funet.fi {128.214.6.100} "What is Wizard mode, and how do I use it?" The game maintainer can use wizard-mode as a debugging aid. Try: "nethack -u wizard -D" or "nethack -uWizard -D" "I've undergone a Name Change and then saved the game. How do I restore the game?" In most implementations you have to tell the game your new name, as in: "nethack -u <newname>" "I've cleaned out the castle, where are the downstairs?" Part of the challenge of nethack is figuring out mysteries like this. Relax! This is intentional! There is a way... "The Dungeon collapsed. Can I recover this game?" Find the panic save file (*.e), if it exists, and remove the ".e" suffix. If the file exists, it is likely, but not guaranteed, to work after renaming. If the file does not exist, the game cannot be recovered, even if all the level files remain, because the player information is not in any of those files. "When will the next version be released and what will be different?" No information is available at this time. Thank you for your patience. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Basic FTP instructions If your machine is directly connected to internet, you can obtain the source code and official binary releases for some popular computers. Type in the command: ftp linc.cis.upenn.edu or ftp 130.91.6.8 You will be connected to upenn, and it will prompt for a username. Type in the username: anonymous Use your e-mail address for a password, such as: boris@moose.squirrel.whatsammata.edu Paying attention to upper and lower case, change directories to the Nethack base directory, by typing: cd pub/NH3.0 This directory contains the source and instructions for compiling and installing Nethack on a variety of machines. You might want to first obtain the READ_FIRST file that's in this directory. Try either one of these two commands: get READ_FIRST get READ_FIRST _____.____ {use any local file name you like} If you want to know what files are available in any directory, type: dir If you want a binary version of NetHack, type in one of the following commands: cd PC cd os2 cd mac cd amiga cd atari Each of these directories contain the binaries and instructions for installation. Use the DIR command, and get the README file first. Regardless what version you want, you'll need to know that there are two ways to transfer, in "ascii" or in "binary" mode. By default, you're already in ascii mode. If you wish to transfer binary files, type: binary To switch to binary mode. If you need to switch back, type: ascii As you've seen above, you get files by typing one of these commands: get <file> get <file> <local.file.name> mget <wildcarded file name> If your local system can handle Unix file structures, you can get all the source and instructions by typing: mget * To leave your FTP session, type: quit Files that end with either "...uu" or "...uue" are files in Unix "uuencode" format. These are binary files encoded into ascii format, and must be decoded by a Unix "uudecode" command. There are versions of uudecode for many platforms. Check with your system administrator, local BBS, etc. Also, the Nethack source files are all of the form: <filename>.tar.Z.uu Once uudecoded, require two additional Unix programs, "uncompress" (the 'Z' means compressed), and "tar". Like uudecode, there are versions of these programs for other platforms. -- Yu Cao yucao@cco.caltech.edu Caltech 103-33 Pasadena, CA 91125 Xref: bloom-picayune.mit.edu rec.games.frp.announce:296 news.answers:4695 Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.announce,news.answers Path: bloom-picayune.mit.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!news.media.mit.edu!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!uw-beaver!newsfeed.rice.edu!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cwatters From: rg-frp-announce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: [rec.games.frp.*] Welcome to the roleplaying discussion groups! Message-ID: <1992Dec18.175405.6503@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc Originator: cwatters@top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Keywords: etiquette, news.announce.newusers, roleplaying games, administrivia Supersedes: <1992Dec4.153501.15258@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Reply-To: cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:54:05 GMT Approved: cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Lines: 229 Archive-name: games/roleplay/part1 Last-modified: 11/20/92 Welcome to the rec.games.frp newsgroups Please send suggested corrections and additions to the following address: CWATTERS@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu * Asterisks are used to indicate new/updated information. This is the first of a set of semi-monthly posts, all of which are posted to rec.games.frp.announce. 1 Welcome to the rec.games.frp newsgroups! 2 Frequently asked questions, part 1 2a Frequently asked questions, part 2 3 Archive sites with Roleplaying material 4 Roleplaying Mailing Lists and Digests part 1/2 5 Roleplaying Mailing Lists and Digests part 2/2 6 BBS's of interest to Roleplaying gamers 7 Roleplaying Net.*.books, Gaming FAQ Keepers 8*** Armor, armament, and bows in Medieval Times *** - any day now! WELCOME TO THE REC.GAMES.FRP NEWSGROUPS! The Charter for this newsgroup is in the following article, with the answers to frequently asked questions. This article collects important information which will help you use this newsgroup. If you're new to the rec.games.frp newsgroups, please take a few minutes to read the rest of this posting and the associated administrivia postings. If you are also new to netnews, please read through the net etiquette postings in news.announce.newusers, including "Introduction to news.announce," "What is Usenet?", "Rules for posting to Usenet", "A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community", "Hints on writing style for Usenet", "Answers to Frequently Asked Questions", and "Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette". Some of these postings may be found most easily in news.answers. Other postings that you should be familiar with, though you don't have to read them all the way through at first, include: "How to Get Information about Networks"; "List of Active Newsgroups"; "Publicly Accessible Mailing Lists, Parts I, II, & III"; "List of Periodic Informational Postings"; "Alternative Newsgroup Hierarchies, Parts I & II"; and "A Guide to Social Newsgroups and Mailing Lists". Finally, here are some regular postings that new users probably don't need to read unless they want to build newsreading software, create a newsgroup, or get more involved with the network than most users seem to: "USENET Software: History and Sources"; "How to Create a New Newsgroup"; "Regional Newsgroup Hierarchies, Part I,II,III"; "List of Moderators"; "How to Create a New Trial Newsgroup"; "Checkgroups message (with INET groups)"; and "How to Construct the Mailpaths File". WHAT DOESN'T BELONG IN REC.GAMES.FRP.*? These groups are *not* intended for the discussion of wargames and other board games, except as directly related to role-playing games; try rec.games.board instead. Nor is this the proper group for discussing computer games. Computer game discussions and spoiler requests for Adventure-type games (such as Zork and Ultima) belong in rec.games.video, rec.games.misc, rec.arts.int-fiction, rec.games.mud, rec.games.moria, or the relevant computer-related newsgroup (e.g., comp.sys.mac.games). * The general consensus is that the ROLEPLAYING aspects of games which are primarily tabletop or board games, i.e. BattleTech and WarHammer 40k, are welcome here, postings of a tactical or "wargaming" nature should be posted to rec.games.board* SUGGESTIONS FOR POSTING The following suggestions are intended to SUPPLEMENT the general guidelines for posting to the net. You should already be familiar with the guidelines contained in "Rules for posting to Usenet", "A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community", and "Hints on writing style for Usenet", which can be found in the newsgroup news.announce.newusers. The most relevant parts of these postings, or rather the parts of these postings most often ignored on these newsgroups, are: Don't post anything that is intended for only one other person, send flames and arguments through E-mail; Read threads through to the end before adding to them, often other people make your point first (M or m is a very useful keystroke in rn); Don't post "yeah, me too" articles; Don't quote excessively, especially don't quote the entirety of another person's posting and then add two lines at the bottom, if someone wants to read the entire first posting they can go back and read it for themselves.